Why vBulletin no longer meets my requirements.

I'd like to see the post where I mentioned the Alpha testers. I know they disagreed, and will state it alongside anyone. However, we don't know the Staffs position on the matter, and to imply the majority went one way or the other because of the four vocal ones is wrong. And such an implication needs clarification. That is all.

Honestly I feel like this decision was made a long long time ago. This is sadly how IB codes. They have been pushing out release after release is this really any surprise? Its just furthering the same problem they've had sense VB 4.

IB is still being driven from the top down by dolts. We all know how well this structure works in the real world. Good luck to all you who still rely on vB...I truly empathize with you.

To be honest ryan I don't know why you're getting your knickers in a twist about this. When have the devs ever listened? To my understanding and it's been posted by many alpha team members that they never did listen,the team practically pulled their hair out.

From what RyanA said it's either a case of 1. they aren't listening. Or someone higher up who doesn't know what they are doing is pulling those strings. Which is worse? I would settle for them not listening rather than the latter.

Anyway, enjoy your vbulletin. :wink:

Because Fabian, to this day, claims that they are listening. I'm calling him out on it.

I do still have a vested interest in vBulletin, and I do still want to see it succeed...And as long as that is the case, I will fight for it. I don't give up so quickly like a lot of others. I'm sticking it out for a while longer and will pester IB until the day I leave.

Who was sad enough to count that 22 testers were against it :wink:

After being called out before for grabbing numbers out of thin air, this guy :wink:

In my defense, it only took 10 minutes, and I accomplished what I set out for.

I can see your point ryan, barely though. I know you have a vested interest in vbulletin and have invested alot financially, probably emotionally too. Of course you want it to succeed, we all did at one point in time but knew after 4 years that it was time to cut our looses and stagnate or move onto another solution, provide for another solution.

I wouldn't say that others gave up so easily, nearly four years people stood by vbuletin and many years before that so you have to ask yourself when is enough enough? It's not giving up, more facing reality and stopping yourself living in ignorant bliss.

Ray claimed, fabian claimed just like many others claimed before them. In reality, what they've all done as a whole is destroy these commercial vbulletin orientated companies and sent them to the grave. If they were going to listen, they would have done it years ago.

I admire your persistence even though I feel it is a lost cause.

4 years? vB really only took a nosedive with vB4, which was ~1 year ago

Now, granted, I was "in the vB game" 2003-2006, left for a while, returned in 2008...so I haven't been involved the entire time, but I wouldn't say it's been going downhill for 4 years. I'd say it's more like 1-2 years that it's been going downhill, but it's only gotten REALLY bad the past year.

When I've got over 5 years invested in something, it's going to take more than a year or so to abandon ship. You should also understand that it takes more for somebody like me (who runs a business relying on vB) to abandon ship than it does to somebody who is simply using vB to operate their forums.

Anywho, and like I said, as long as I'm involved with/depend on vB, I'll fight for it. It would be silly not to. You don't see any reason because you don't care about vB, and I can understand that :wink:

Now your trying to put words in my mouth. I don't see the reason to fight/support vbulletin because I'm smart enough to cut my looses and walk away.

Anyone with some common sense would have knew the direction vbulletin was going about 3-4 years ago about the same time all the staff left. :wavespin: Even then, vbulletin was stagnating with 3.8 being a terrible release. It's been so long I think even the 3.7 point release was a an unwelcome release. My point being it's been going downhill for a long time. Many people saw this quite surprised you don't.

If I believe in a product it'll have my support. If bad consistency constantly plays out it won't get my support. Enjoy your many headaches with vbulletin because no doubt they'll be plenty more to come. :wink:

I disagree, I do think they heard us but still decided to give it a go anyway. The internal debate between us and them is quite lengthy, providing ups and downs for both sides of the argument. Fabian clearly has experience in this area and maybe it'll work out. I don't really know, as I've never seen true Agile Development in web software before so I just assume it won't work.

I'm not particularly pleased about them going ahead with it, honestly, my posts in the Alpha forums took for-ever to write. But like I said, never seen it in this industry, so meh, I'll deal with it for now and see how things turn out. I'm certainly not going to drop them on the spot for a change in development path. And don't say I'm "stupid" or "lack common sense" for staying with them because that's simply not true. I'm smart enough to know what I'm doing without needing people to tell me so. :wink:

Going ahead with what? Help build ray morgans log cabin when they should have been developing a better product. I agree. :wavespin: I hear alot of "maybes" and what ifs. Yes, the devs have the luxury of that, people trying to make a living from their forum solutions don't who have to wait for the people at vbulletin to get things right.

Out of curiosity Ryan. Are you on some kind of "vbulletin incentive scheme"? :wavespin:

Thank you, I appreciate that. :wink: Enough to make me realize this argument is not worth my time.

For the record, no I was not. I'm saying the exact same thing that you are

I'm still invested in vBulletin, therefore I care.

You are no longer invested in vBulletin, therefore you do not care.

I respect your decision and am fine with the fact that you don't care. However, it is not your place to question why those of us who are still invested in vBulletin care enough about it to say something.

I have a lot of sympathy for Ryan's position, when vBulletin was touting for alpha testers I gave it serious consideration, thinking perhaps I could do something to help get things back on course. I have 10 years experience of vBulletin and over 30 years experience in the software industry, working as an assembly language level coder right through to a product development manager.

I spent sometime reading through all the staff posts on the vBulletin forums and trawled through the tracker. That was enough to deterred me from applying and Fabian's announcement was enough for me to ditch the product. I've worked within an agile software development system and I know that it's entirely unsuited to the on-going development of a forum solution.

Forum owners need plan driven road maps not adaptive methodologies e.g. everyone knew what to expect with the 4.1.0 StyleVar overhaul. Skin makers like Ryan could plan and so could forum owners. Instead we get a continual stream of broken forum skins which nobody can keep up with and absolutely no idea when it will all end. Furthermore vBulletin fails abysmally to deliver on the virtues of an adaptive system by ignoring their stakeholders and also by failing to deliver on quality.

Proclaiming that we have a choice to upgrade or not is just nonsense. You have no choice at all if the iteration contains a security update. Skin makers have no choice. Mod makers have no choice. I fully understand why people might want to stay with vBulletin, it is a feature rich product with a lot of potential. By ditching it I'm taking as much as a gamble as those who choose to stay. It might come good and for those of you that are staying, I honestly hope it does. For me, it's actually a relief to say goodbye.

Do keep us updated on how your crusade progresses Ryan. I'm pulling for you!

:rofl:

Thank you John

You're right. This debate is best channelled towards the "great guys" at vbulletin. It's okay to direct your sarcasm at me but rest assured I never put you in the situation your in now. The people who can do no wrong, that couldn't care less about your livelihood did. Us plebs just hear about it and get the backlash due to the frustration you lot show on a daily basis. Here's a fact, you'll be in this predicament a year from now fighting your crusade for a better solution.

Live with your decision and stop complaining about it I'm not trying to sway you away from vbulletin, you know those great guys that get everything wrong and still come out smelling of roses.

Um, lol. You are also not in the position to tell us what we are allowed and not allowed to talk about. If you don't want to read our "complaints", then don't. Some of us would like to continue our discussions on vBulletin whether you do or not.

I think your far gone from jumping on the lol train. You vent all you like because that is all you'll be doing. Again, you may want to channel your frustration at the good guys at vbulletin.com. You know, the same guys I told you about, the part you forgot to quote.

I never told you not to post. Your complaining yet here we are with ryan showing his frustration out on somebody that didn't put him in the predicament that he's in now. Who put you there ryan?

SO MUCH NEGATIVE REPUTATION OH GOD.