Lack of development?

Ouch. That's worse than vBulletin saying the same thing. It rubs me the wrong way, and I'm sure they're not satisfied with that answer.

If it was just me, I'd want it global, too. But options are always better.

Yikes, sounds confusing and not really organized.

I have never used an IPBoard as administrator until Dark Wizard made me admistrator of his Xbox site. So, when I got access to the ACP my first impression was: "Slow? Really? Here I thought vBulletin was slow." I can't tell you how painful it was just clicking on a link and then loading it. I sat there and I was bored quickly.

I dunno about you, but that's embarrassing as a newcomer to IPB. Not embarrassing to me, but embarrassing on the part of IPB. I wonder how many people wanted a refund or to sell it. That's embarrassing.

Agreed on both fronts. The logging on vB could have used more work, so I thought the logging in XF was not only straight forward, it was also detailed. That's impressive even for a developer who created a no-name company.

Are you referring to yourself in the 3rd person?

CarlosX360 = Brand and Company.

It's me, too, but it's a brand.

If you read my above post, you'll see where I called the spoiler tags small and minute. It was not a big feature but it is something i was glad t see by default within IPB.

Since the Move to IPB on my site, everyone of my members said while the change will take some getting use to they adore and love the site and think it is the best software yet(i've switched softwares so much in the past year).

They enjoy being able to fully customize their profile to make it unique to them....I don't think there is a way to add profile music or customizations(wallpaers, etc) on XF...if there is, idk how.

Furthermore, the features of IPB such as a Gallery is quite robust and fun and attractive to use. The one on XF was pretty good as well but i definitely prefer IPB gallery.

Members love the blog system as well.

Notifications are slightly confusing with IPB but at the same time, on my old XF forum whenever I should be getting a notification....half the time i never got the notification and i greatly prefer the way IPB does it.

Ignore feature...i'm an admin so i don't ignore my members.

Logging---You mean admin and mod logs? I never focused much on that with XF.

Stats--Granted the way that XF does it with the line graph is visually appealing bu it can get a bit crowded when you have multiple categories you are trying to look at one time(posts, posts like, new registration etc etc)

personally, the way IPB does stats is fine by me. Quick and simple.


Admin Panel--I do love the way XF admin panel works and looks but I like IPB because it is more organized as well to me.
I also love the fact that whenever i change styles or upload styles with IPB, that my site does not go white like it did with XF then i have member's frekaing out that i did something wrong when I didn't.

XF should REALLY fix that because that is annoying and unattractive.

What really puts IPB over XF is simply the community. People give the excuse that XF is a new software(it's 2 or so years old) and that with time, it will catch on. Xenforo reminds me of Windows phone 7 with Vbulletin and IPB being Android and IOS. It doesn't matter how new something is, but if it lacks certain features that more experienced OS or softwares have and the community behind it seems lagging, it won't catch on.

The skins for XF literally all look the same and then I feel they are overpriced because I've only seen like 2 that are actually worth being paid and even then they cost as much as they do...this is not core XF but overall XF with developers and what not.

Add-ons are sparse and there are so many things that I would like on XF that currently do not exist.

All in all, IPB feels more like a full software that is worth its money and I feel like its current state, while it is good...XF is a bit overpriced and lacks functionality that is found even in FREE SOFTWARE and it makes up for that by simply being pretty.

Harvard vs. Yale, Chevy vs. Ford, chocolate vs. vanilla. People like to have choices and like being able to exercise their ability to pick and choose what they like and don't like.

When I read through that list of things you really like about IPB, I see all the things I didn't like about it. And the fact the conversion from IPB to XenForo brought a lot of my inactive users back to being regular participants again is one of the keys. I had a small handful of users who really liked the IPB UI, but I had nearly twice that many who stopped using the forum altogether. Whilst using IPB, the majority of my users wanted me to convert back to vBulletin 3.8, just to get away from the IPB UI. <shrug> See what I mean? Different strokes for different folks.

Comparing IP.Gallery to what passes for gallery functions in XenForo is a bit like comparing a Gulfstream to a paper glider. Obviously, IP.Gallery is much more robust, but it is ever the most backward piece of software I ever tried to use. I was reluctant to convert to XenForo when I did, because the Gallery was a popular function on my site. But I was sick to death with IPB's deplorable search engine optimization and decided to get moved before the site finally dried up like a tumbleweed. I was eagerly watching for updates on KK's Galleria and was poised to add it, the instant it became available. I converted over 7 months ago and my site is more active than it has ever been. So active, in fact, I'm thankful KK wasn't in a hurry to release Galleria, because I can see my members don't really need a Gallery add-on, after all. They're happy as clams without it.

When I was still running on IPB, I had an unused IP.Blog license, so I asked my members if they were interested in having their own blogs and not a single member was interested.

I think we often get it stuck in our own heads that certain functions and features are vital, but we forget to ask our members how they feel about it.

As for the IPB AdminCP, I adapted to it pretty easily after converting from vB. But after adding on IP.Content, IP.Blog and IP.Gallery, I was just as quickly frustrated about the way permissions were scattered far and wide. Once I caught on to the XenForo user permissions and realized what a 'node' is, I was really happy.

When it comes to things like profile customization, all I see is bloated feature creep. People think social networking sites are going to drive forums out of existence, but I'm not one of those people. I run forums in some pretty specific niches and the discussions on those forums are not the kinds of discussions anyone is going to find on a social networking site. I showed my members how easy it was to customize their profiles in IPB and exactly none of them did any customization at all. That's when I realized my sites are forum sites, so I needed to be providing a robust forum experience. I don't view Facebook as a competitor, so I don't waste my resources trying to compete with them.

After some extensive testing, I found XenForo was running considerably faster, on my server, than IPB. I also saw an immediate reduction in load after converting. It's running faster, using fewer resources, my members are loving it and I really like using it. For our particular needs, XenForo was, and still is, the best option for me. None of us has a crystal ball, so none of us can see how things are going to shake out of the IB/XenForo lawsuit. Sure, that is a concern for everyone, but I was aware of the risks when I bought into XenForo. I could have spent these last 7 months watching my site shrivel up on IPB, had I chosen not to convert. But I don't see how that was going to be a positive move, either.

As for XenForo being overpriced, I don't see that at all. IP.Board sells for $175 and requires a $25 renewal after 6 months. XenForo sells for $140 and then requires just a $40 renewal after the first year. Per year, XenForo costs 20% less than IPB, so I don't see that as being overpriced.

If your user enjoy using IPB and you enjoy using the IPB AdminCP, then it sounds like IPB is what you needed to be running all along. But,as you can see, some of your reasons just might be the same reasons to avoid IPB on another site. It's all about choice.

Activity grew after my conversion from IPB to XF.

You made the right choice! Although this lawsuit is a bummer, the software's quality and how it will affect forum activity is what outweighs it. I was on vB3/4, and I had converted it to xenForo after 6 months of testing on a fresh new website. Er. A few fresh websites.

Whoever thinks xenForo is expensive and thinks that $140 is expensive... is dumb especially considering vBulletin charges it's customers anywhere from $195 to an upward of $470 just for a single license.

The worst part? It's not worth the price vBSI is charging their customers.

I am actually quite intelligent
I just think that Xenforo is not worth 140
Not in it's current state anyway.

my traffic with IPB has already increased over the past few days and i love to be able to see the bots online.

I am all for choice.
I personally thing XF is an awesome software but I definitely have to give the edge to IPB. Sure it may lack a little flash and smoothness of XF but it's base features plus developer community makes up for the shortcoming.

The speed difference is minimal.

I rrun a forum in a Teen centric niche so maybe that is why member's love to customize things as we are the generation of facebook, twitter and the way past it's prime myspace.

The Permission set up in Xf is confusing because of the way certain things are labeled. I personally find it easier(once i learned) to set permissions in IPB.

I just think XF is more of an advanced version that is more comparable with Mybb...vs IPB.
I feel like with XF that so many people just rush to the fact that it is newere and not vbulletin or iPb that they tend to downplay any shortcomings that the software may have.

The "trick of the week" is always going to attract attention, I agree. As for shortcomings, I find myself completely satisfied with what I currently have, so I don't see any shortcomings.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that. However, they're not serious enough to make them insurmountable and should iron out as the software matures.

XF vs IPB the speed difference is minimal? HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahaha.

hahahahahahahahahahaha....

LMFAO. L.M.F.A.O. R.O.F.L.

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who noticed that. The way they responded to those with complaints about the watched threads... sounded like that's what they want, and they don't want to go back and change it.

I could careless about the flash and smoothness. I care about functionality, speed, performance, and reduction of errors, and that's what xF brought to the table for my site.

lmao I beg to differ. I think I posted an image in one of the old threads showing the difference in speed once I switched off IPB to xF. It wasn't minimal at all, it was huge. Plus, my members even started saying that it loads much faster than before.

My entire site consists of 13-18 YO's (mostly). I guess my crowd is totally opposite of yours because these kids don't want anything to do with customizing (aside from the rare few).

Everything you are saying is confusing me. Why? Because it seems like you only used the software for maybe an hour at most. I learned the xf lingo and the permissions system withing 10 minutes and that's after I've been use to vB, IPB, and phpbb. Yes, the wording is different. Once you get passed that and make the proper connections (really...I think it's only 2 or 3 terms that are different...maybe not even that), the permission system is one of the easiest and fastest I've ever used. It's close to what vB had (with much less options). IPB's was a clusterf*ckfest. No idea why you like it...I hated it, all my admins hated it....we were happy to get rid of it. xF made permissions extremely easy to do which makes it a lot easier adding new forums because I don't have to set the permissions AT ALL. If you learn how to do it right from the start, then you won't have any problems in the future. That's why I'm confused why you think IPB's is better...even after being on the software for 2 years, my admins kept screwing up the permissions when adding new forums. Haven't had a problem since moving to xF and they've told me how much happier they are with the admin functions.


And going back to your other post, I think Mike covered it. Many of the things you think is a plus, was a big minus in my book. My members never had or needed a gallery or blogs. The sites I've been to with those 2 features....those get rarely used. On the one site they've had 0 new pictures added for 2-3 months...and this isn't an inactive site either (if it was I wouldn't be visiting it). I think xF is fairly priced. I think the pricing scheme for IPB is bull. You are paying $50 a year for your IPB license. You say you have blogs and gallery....Idk how much more those cost per year but lets just say they are $40/year each, that is $130/year. Now lets add IP.Content since that's suppose to be extremely awesome. I think that's another $60/year...all of these are guesses btw. Oh yeah, what if you want a store, another $70 per year I think...I think that was 35/6 months. That's over $200/year to run IPB alone. Now what if you want mods. Most of their mods cost (that are good and useful...hell even non-useful ones cost more than $10 lmao), so usually there is a renew fee for updates. Man, this is getting expensive. But let's rewind, what if you just wanted board, blog, and gallery. That's over $100/year alone, not counting any community mods...and like I said, the good ones cost money from what I remember...I think I only had 3-4 free mods installed, the rest were paid (where as now, I have about 10 free mods installed, and 2-3 paid on my xf board). Sure sounds like you went the cheaper route lol

I'm saving about $100/year by leaving IPB in just the renewals for the official products alone (I had ipb, ipn, ipc). Not to mention the server resources saved, saving me from upgrading my server. But hey, to each their own, right?

Just a quick exert about stats. I don't recall ipb having the ability to compare stats like xf does. You said it gets a bit crowded...I've not had that problem. Not to be condescending but I guess that would be the case for smaller sites, no? My post counts are always higher than my thread counts. My new member counts could be close to my new thread counts, I've not looked in a while so maybe that gets a bit crowded. Likes fluctuates so it's in between posts and thread counts. Hmm...trying to think what else. But either way, I think those are the only ones I would consider viewing all together to find correlations. I don't see how those can be "crowded". At least I can compare them as opposed to taking a screen shot, backing out, clicking another category of stats, taking another screen shot and comparing the 2.

Also, just for the record. I don't ignore members. It's a great feature FOR my members so they can ignore the ones that flame and troll, and not get entangled with them. That's just a smart feature to have if you want to keep the flaming and trolling to a minimum.

I still don't like how XF does permissions. I went to search for a subset in the registered users group and every stinking individual showed up. I hate using secondary permissions and XF pretty much forces you into this. Because everyone is a member of the registered member's group, it's a pain in the ass to search JUST for those that are a member of Registered and nothing else.

The two things I learned about XF permissions when I went live with my first XF forum are:

1. My brain is not big enough.
2. If it doesn't work, check the permissions.

That particular forum was a migration from vB but the permissions didn't import correctly. At first I tried tweaking them but that didn't work. Then I tried rebuilding from scratch but that didn't work either. In the end I did what any sensible board owner would do and delegate the task to another admin

I loathe setting permissions, always have always will but to be fair I appreciate the versatility of the XF permissions. I've set my contributor group up without secondary permissions, granted you have to set that group permission for every forum but your certainly not forced to apply secondary permissions.

But permissions as a whole, for any software as far as I'm concerned is a pain in the ass but that's me loathing settings up permissions, it's a task I certainly never look forward in doing and try to avoid it at all costs by limiting or adding extra usergroups.

I like the "layered" permissions system in XF; imagine each set of permissions layered on top of each other - then each individual permission as a hole - if light shines all the way through then it's a 'yes/set' for that option; and if not it's a 'no/not set'.

A bit overdramatic aren't we?

I have not noticed anything too big as far as speed or anything. Sure IPB lacks a certain smoothness that XF has but it is not terrible and it really is noticeable.

I have officially only been using IPB for a short time and in this point and time, i don't have many complaints...that could change in a few weeks, days, months or years. Who knows. But as of right now, I like IPB much more than XF.

I am taking the forum offline today to upgraded to 3.3.2 i believe so it can be a bit more up to date. So i'll probably be doing that at some point today.

I haven't had but one of the members on my site complain that he doesn't like the software and he is a troll. I've gotten a heap of praise and good response that they like the site and the software and the direction we are going in. I almost went Vbulletin but god knows would i have gotten the same feedback.

Not all 13-18 years old are like. I am a teen myself and I personally am not like the everyday teen. So it doesn't surprise me that your group of members may differ from mine. It all depends on the type of site you run as well as the memberbase.

They love the fact they can add a profile song to their profiles. Superficial and silly, I admit, but at the same time this makes the forum more personable to people in general because it encourages them to come back and do more to their pages.

I used Xenforo since December/January so your assumption about using it for a few hours is invalid. i used the software and I was a big fan of the software. I still am a fan but after experiencing more mature software, i realized the shortcomings of the software.

The way permissions are done is not a big deal in XF but it feels more professional and a bit more organized(in my opinion) in IPB than XF. I agree with biker as well about the way permissions are done. The permission settings in iPB are simply more in-depth and organized.

No, I don' have 2 years experience running forums(i only started late 2011) but I make sure to train myself and train my staff in the admin panel of any software we use so careless mistakes like screwup permissions are easily avoided.


Comparing Price of IPb & XF, I hope i wasn't saying that it is cost effective to go with IPB over Xenforo. I am well aware that it does cost more to use IPB over xF(which is a benefit of using xF). However, i feel content paying 175 bucks for an IPB license for a software that feels more complete as well as a company that does seem to have a good vision. No disrespect to anyone at XF but you have people walking around confused at what is up, horrible PR, staff drama and quittings, lack of development it seems like, a community that half the time seems like they can't tell which way is up or down....It's just a bit backwards and the software still is missing certain things that have been default in forum software for years now. Hence why i think 140 is overpriced. Going over to IPB and the community there, you immediately get a sense of direction and confidence. They keep the community involved and informed of future updates and I like that. it shows confidence and pride in their work. Not saying they are perfect. There are quite a few people on IPB staff i personally don't like but as a company, I don't mind paying any money that i may have to to use their products.

Not to be funny or rude, but the creators of XF are not just some random joes who one day decided to make their on software and call it Xenforo. these are 2-3 men who have experience and knowledge of creating software and a business from their past experience with Vbulletin. So it is disheartening as well as a bit off that I see them making such novice mistakes. Especially in the PR area....The lawsuit could potentially scare some customers off or whatever and they've dropped the ball with PR. Yes, eventually they came back to save face and "reassure" people but stuff should not have gotten out of hand the way it did.

Again at the state it is at now, Xenforo is overpriced at 140 in my opinion and 80% of the styles made for XF are severely overpriced at that.

I prefer doing it one at a time on IPb with the bar graph vs the line graph with XF when you add more stuff to it, it tends to get crowded and then you have that big ass legend at the top of the graph that can potentially cover up stuff.(It's had to explain).


and no i don't run a big forum by any means.
I have 406 members and about 84,309 posts.

But my posting has grown quite a bit and new registrations.

With XF

Daily posts 130-170 and we may peak a few times in the 300s during the wee
New topics 7-15
New member registrations 0-2 daily and we may peak at 5 at some point during the week

With IPB
For some reason posting has increased a bit

This past week we have been sitting at around 320-370 daily with a peak of 680 friday and 536 saturday
New topics 10-15(For some reason member's just don't make new topics)
New registrations 24 members total this week(Vs 10-14 weekly on XF)

Something about the software with IPB encourages more activity than on XF

I hate taking the forum offline to upgrade as this will be a slow posting day :/
Side-note: I hate the way multi-quote works on XF. I just noticed that

If you were intelligent, you would have seen the speed difference between XF and IPB. I'm sorry, I'm going back to laughing.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha......

The smoothness is something 'extra' to have. And that's something that AzzidReign was trying to say. It's nice to have a software that's smooth, but more importantly; speed, performance, and stability are the few things that make the software.

Neither IPB or vBulletin has that.

You would be getting the same response from members if you go vB3. But you'll get better responses if you go xenForo, I know a troll-heavy site that enjoys xenForo.

That explains why you can't make good decisions, then.

I know a board that did that, and members got bored of it, the feature ended up being a useless feature. People change at the click or blink of an eye. People are very fickle, especially more so in niche forums.

That was the perfect time for you to start with something new. But your perception is the very point that everyone in this thread was making.

There are people on these boards who have started as soon as the turn of the century; 2000. Me for example, I've been in the forum game since 2001. I have have been there and done that.

Paying for updates $175 satisfies you? You could have saved half of that by going xenForo at just a measly $40 per year. Unless you have Enhanced Search. This is laughable, too.

Hopefully, KMA don't see this. Because once they do, I'm sure they'll be offended enough to ban you on your next troll post at xenForo. I'm sorry, your post is ignorant. Because you know damn well of KMA's expertise with vBulletin development, and yet you're calling them regular joes. If I were Kier, I would have been more offended at your post than a smirk. Posts like this is the reason why you're getting the responses like mine. Just ignorant.

I'm going to continue laughing because you think xenForo is overpriced. Do you even know how much it costs to develop a HTML5-compliant, or HTML5-ready website these days? Much less a forum?

$1000

One Thousand Dollars.

The technology is new, and everyone is learning how to code a HTML5 website, so consider yourself lucky if you find a coder that knows from the back of their head. Consider yourself even more lucky if you find a coder that will do it for LESS than a thousand dollars. The demand for HTML5 is off the charts right now. I can say the same for the MVC tech that's under the hood of XF. Facebook uses the same technology, so whoever made that tech is making a substantial amount of money.

So, really, you're getting more for your buck, and it's cheap at $140.

And here's the thing, HTML5's validations aren't complete. It's not fully finished or mature yet. That means, it's not fully on the market yet.

Then, you hate Facebook.

With XF, you can expect this to quadruple especially with a good looking skin.

I think you meant the other way around.

With xenForo you won't have to wait. In fact, that's one of the reasons why we're calling on your bull posts regarding speed differences.