IP.Board 3.1.x and Applications: End of Life Announcement

Brad your post is spot on! Even though I love IPB I still agree with you! I hope they see our posts here. We can be hopeful for change, but hope it's not too late. However, some damage was done to some large communities and let's hope IPS has observed this and responds gracefully. I want them to do good.

The SEO is horrible, as until now they had so many things missing that are just common when you're developing software. Theres a few posts in the IPB forum about the issues people had.

IPB does not have better user experience; it has been my main gripe since 2.x. Their software feels slow and clunky, and even with the 3.2 makeover (Which is heavily inspired by XenForo) it doesn't feel as fast as it should. Many elements require more clicking than necessary, and there is a lot that isn't as accessible or usable as it should be. While XenForo isn't perfect, it is still quite a bit better than IPB in that regard.

XenForo tends to take suggestions a bit better, and get them implemented in a more timely manner (IPB took years for some of the new 3.2 features). When they do features, they tend to do them right as well (Or at least fix them quickly as with the Notice system, which was horrible when it first was released).

They've been doing IB moves since before IB took over vBulletin.

If you look around this site, you'll find several of us have posted some numbers to support our claims.

What is interesting is you want to see the information at all. In a private conversation with Charles Warner (a conversation he initiated to ask my thoughts about IPB SEO, mind), I tried to give him data to support my claims. All I saw was his backside, as he was running to get away from me. The fact he ran to get away from me, yet you show interest speaks, nay, screams volumes about Invision Power Services.

I was running vB 3.8/vBSEO, prior to converting to IPB 3.04. So I was paying very close attention to a lot of statistics from my sites, long before making the decision to leave vB. When I converted, I was stunned to see there was actually very little change in any of my traffic numbers. I tried using an add-on that allowed me to customize URLs, but it had no support for IP.Blog, so I removed it. I was seriously screwing with URL structures, yet 3.0.4 didn't care. When IPB 3.1.3 was released, I was busy with a lot of other projects. But I wanted to get two of my better sites updated, so I ran the update on them, leaving the other three sites on 3.1.2. With two weeks, my numbers were dropping like stones. I just dug up an archived copy of the conversation I had with Charles. My search engine traffic fell 37.78% in a 6 week period. Keyword count dropped 53.58% in that same time frame. My total google indexed page count dropped 76.83%! My revenue had been showing signs of slight growth, but the numbers were fairly reliable. In the first full month of converting those two sites, my revenue was down 62%.

What is interesting, is the three sites still running 3.1.2 were holding their own. When Mssrs. Warner and Mecham were assuring me they had made no changes that could have caused the issues I was seeing, I decided to experiment a bit. I took the smallest and slowest of the remaining 3.1.2 sites and updated it to 3.1.3. Within two weeks, I was seeing the same results. I then updated another site and saw the very same results. By this time, 3.1.4 had been released, so I updated those four sites to 3.1.4, where I saw some very slight improvements. So I ran the 3.1.3 update on the 5th site and saw the same results, before upgrading it to 3.1.4. Tell me, how much more of a controlled environment could I have had?

I am not a coder, by any stretch of the imagination, but I started sifting through the 3.1.4 core files, making small changes and watching for results. I had an edited 3.1.4 package that was really showing me some very positive results, but updating to 3.2 wiped out all of my efforts.

In late October 2011, I contacted Matt Mecham via e-mail and laid it out for him. I told him what I had experienced and told him I was looking for one of three things to happen. I wanted to see A) immediate attention given to the SEO shortcomings within IPB; B) I wanted assistance from IPS to convert my IPB sites back to the 3.0.x fork, or C) I was moving to XenForo. I was fed up to my eyebrows with the denials, because I had hard data to support what I was saying. Matt's response was to say he could not recall making "any big changes, but something small could have been the reason" for the problems I had been fighting for 12 months, He then asked me to give him all of my edited 3.1.4 files, so he could see what I was doing to improve things. When I moved to IPS, I converted 4 vB sites and opened a fifth site, so I had $1,000 in IPS licenses. I watched one of their alleged updates kill all five of my sites, whilst they sat in complete denial. Yet Matt wanted me to give him the fruits of my labors? That was pretty much the straw that broke the camel's back. Within 30 days, I had one site converted to XenForo. Of the five IPB sites I owned, I sold the licenses for one to Azhria Lilu and gave her the database for the site, which was merged into AdEx. Two other sites withered away and I closed them. And the last remaining IPB site is so dead I cannot justify spending anything on it, to try and revive it. So I went from s total of five sites to one active site, all at the hands of IPS "updates" and IPS denial.

If you are interested, there are some stats collected after the conversion to XenForo posted here.

Until IPB 3.1.3, I was completely satisfied with IPS. I had a lot of money invested in IPB and really wanted to be able to stay there and move forward with it. It just wasn't meant to be. I do hope to wash the sour taste of their denials from my mouth at some time in the future.

Thank you so much for the stats and the link. That is a HUGE concern and I don't want my forum to do bad on search results.

So the IPS people weren't interested in your site stats??? That's wonky. You would think the more data they had the better.

If I were them I would want as much data as possible so I can accurately improve the SEO. Hell, I would start a thread on that on the IPS forum that would be open to anyone administrating and moderating an IPB and collect as much feedback and data as possible and engage with my clients as much as I can to improve.

I know what companies that don't listen end up. Look at Shoney's restaurants! They never listen to any of mine or anybody's feedback I sent on their feedback forms and they keep getting worse. Lots of restaurants that ignore thier customers end up gone. Darden (Longhorn,Olive garden,RL) listens to feedback gracefully and has improved a lot and has even given me gift cards for any problems I had at any of thier locations, the management responds very well to critique and they explain what's wrong or going on in full, open honesty. They are doing excellent and even opening lots of new locations! While Shoney's closes down location after location.

Ha ha that's ok! But both of our stories are a great comparison how to treat customers! It leaves a sour taste in people's mouths either way.

Lets get honest, in software projects, 90% of your users feedback is crap.

User feedback != bug reports.

This bears repeating....

The same constant complaints != crap feedback.

Especially for a commercial (Even free) software, if you don't cater to your users at least a bit, you're going to fail horribly (Look at vB).

Humm, cant argue with that.

I know I'm going to regret posting this, but I'll go ahead and give it a shot anyway.

Since we're mostly on the subject of SEO... here's a couple links.

http://community.invisionpower.com/...ipboard-33-dev-update-new-seo-tweaks-roundup/
http://community.invisionpower.com/...ev-update-microformat-and-schema-updates-seo/
http://community.invisionpower.com/blog/1174/entry-7383-ipboard-33-dev-update-a-few-more-seo-tweaks/
http://community.invisionpower.com/blog/1174/entry-7377-ipcontent-23-dev-update-odds-and-ends/
http://community.invisionpower.com/...rd-33-dev-update-banning-and-more-seo-tweaks/
http://community.invisionpower.com/blog/1174/entry-7108-ipcontent-23-dev-update-seo-improvements/
http://community.invisionpower.com/blog/1174/entry-7066-ipboard-33-dev-update-seo-improvements/
http://community.invisionpower.com/blog/1174/entry-7035-ipboard-33-what-to-expect/

We are listening. All of these were based on client feedback. I know some of you are going to respond with "too late" and all that other stuff, and all I can say to that is... good luck for the future. I'm not going to try to (nor am I here to attempt to) "bring you back" to IPS or "convert you over" from vB / XF / MyBB / phpBB / etc (though, I can convert you from just about anything from a technical standpoint, but I digress).

On the subject of bug reports... all I've got are numbers: http://screencast.com/t/PX9kvXGGanP

over what stretch of time are those bug reports???

I did note one thing.Those links are from the last 3 months. November 2011, December 2011 & January 2012. Have you possibly got links from the last 1, 2 or even 3 years Ryan? TIA

I personally would never use or recommend IPB to any of my clients and generally recommend moving away from them if the situation warrants it, I too have experienced disastrous decreases of traffic , time on site , page impressions in the past from moving from VB with VBSEO to an IPB install. I have to admit i didnt like IPB in the first place but the members of these forums liked the feel of it better so i thought i would give in and see what the fuss is about .

6 months after converting the site had gone from 3000 uniques a day to next to nothing , members lost interest too so it was sold as a dead community with around 500 uniques a day, needless to say its completely dead now. Had it not been for the drop in traffic and the huge decrease in daily new members i would imagine it would still be around today.

I love the IPB styling , everything is clean and crisp but there are far too many aspects of the script that does not even compare to other brands, i feel too much enthisis has been put into the design rather than anything else that actually matters. I would go as far to say i would rather convert to MyBB than IPB and for me to say that being a commercial script junky is really saying something.

Unfortunately the looks alone doesnt sell it ............................or it does and then people regret they even touched it.

Since this seems to be the post your least favorite things about IPS thread:

I was notified by TheRevTastic last night that IPS will charge you $15 to change your forum install URL after the first time. That's really really stupid. And I guess Lindy attacked TheRevTastic (via support ticket) because he posted this on twitter:

https://twitter.com/#!/TheRevTastic/status/174717260001316864

Mind you, this is what TheRevTastic has told me, so I don't know the full story, but if its true, its a pretty bad move if its a recent change, regardless of what Lindy says about it. Why IPS just doesn't manage everything through a customer area (like XenForo or vBulletin), I'll never know, but claiming the fee is to "prevent abuse" is just lazy.

Here is an extreme example. Lets say I bought a license for mykickinradforums.com. But I made a typo (mykickingradforums.com). There goes my free URL change because I made an honest mistake. Now lets say the site isn't successful. I will have to pay $15 to change my URL, which is really stupid.

In short, this $15 to change your URL thing is stupid, and soured me on buying any (more) IP.Board licenses. I like how the software looks, but I will roll with Xenforo from now on, until some changes are made with IP.Board. (Still better than vBulletin though)

Over the lifetime of the product.

I'm working right now, and only stopping in quickly, but you can review all of our development updates here over the lifetime of the product. Most of which are done based on client feedback. Not dissimilar from other software firms, each version branch focuses on a specific area of the product.

http://community.invisionpower.com/blog/1174-ips-company-blog/

Ryan, while it is "too late" for me, that doesn't mean I don't want to see IPS turn their ship around. I was always very impressed with IPB 3.0.x. I openly pulled some stunts I would never have tried with other software, but 3.0.x never seemed to lose any steam. I made some URL changes that should have staggered the site, but it just never happened. The last time I had any communication with Matt, I told him if he or someone else could come up with a conversion script to move my sites back to 3.0.4, I was more than willing to stick it out with IPB. 3.0.4 was a very good piece of software and my records prove it.

I do hope you fellows manage to get things squared away and start moving in the right direction again. When multiple companies can legitimately vie for the biggest slice of the market pie, that means all of those companies are doing their best work. And that means everyone else benefits, from the license holder to the end users.